Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 21:32:21 +0800 (WST) From: Binh Anson Subject: Phi, phi, ... ! [vacets-dict] - Mesg from Binh Anson On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Ng V. Mai wrote: > My Ha'n is not ro^.ng as many other people do, but I guess "phi" means > fly, "bay", for example: "phi tru+o+`ng Ta^n So+n Nha^'t", "phi dda.o > so^' 360". "Tuye^'n" means "ddu+o+`ng" as in "chie^'n tuye^'n", the > "battle field line". So, together "phi tuye^'n" means "ddu+o+`ng bay". :-)) That's the problem with the present romanised VNmese script ! "Phi" in " phi tuye^'n" here means "non-", NOT "fly" ! :-)), like in phi li', phi nha^n, ... In the french colonial period, some girls would accept to marry only if the man got a college degree. Hence the saying: "phi cao dda(?ng, ba^'t tha`nh phu phu." :-) In Thie^`u Chu+?u 's Ha'n Vie^.t Tu+` DDie^?n: Phi: 1. Lo+'n lao 2. Tie^'ng ca~i nhau (thi. phi) 3. Sa'nh ddo^i (cung phi, phi ta^`n) 4. Ca'nh cu+?a 5. Va.ch ra, re~ ra 6. Con cho' con 7. Tro^.m gia(.c du+~ to+.n 8. Be^.nh tru'ng gio' 9. Lu.a dda`o 10. Ca'i gu+o+m, ca'i kim to 11. La? ta? (mu+a tuye^'t la? ta? : vu~ tuye^'t ki` phi) 12. Tra'i, kho^ng pha?i; che^; la^`m lo^~i; kho^ng ---> this is the "phi" used in "phi tuye^'n ti'nh, non-linearity" 13. Bay; tie^'ng bo^?ng; du`ng lu+?a ddo^'t che^' du+o+.c pha^?m ---> this is the "phi" in "phi co+, phi dda.o, phi thuye^`n" 14. Con ngu+.a cha.y ke`m be^n ngoa`i Hope this would help ! :-)) Tha^n a'i, Bi`nh --------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Aug 95 10:34:19 -0700 From: Frank Pham > On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Ng V. Mai wrote: > Hummm, you got me there !!! :) I would suggest that before we start "bashing" a certain translation, don't fly off by the seat of your pant ( Anh Mai knows the context of this, being a man on the "phi" - FYI, there is a flower children's subcontext of "phi" ) and tell us what you think. Please check it with a Ha'n dictionary. You don't need to "ride the elephant" to have "Ha'n ro^.ng": just get hold of DDa`o Duy Anh's or Nguye^~n Va(n Kho^n's Ha'n Vie^.t Tu+. DDie^?n and look it up. It takes less time than shooting an Email from-the-hip, so to speak, and we may learn one thing or two in the process. The problem of young Vietnamese folks growing up overseas is that you never hear these "strange", "weird" words spoken or used in context, let alone being used by yourself. So all it takes is a matter getting used to it, at least getting exposed to it. There is no way we can fight against the use of Ha'n in Vietnamese technical/scientific terminologies. The best way is to go with the flow and master it. Regards, Pham Hai --------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Aug 95 10:55:32 -0700 From: Frank Pham > La`m o+n cho ho?i mo^.t ca^u. Trong chuye^.n "Tie^?u Ly' PHI ddao, > Ly' Ta^`m Hoan", chu+? "PHI ddao" la` "PHO'NG ddao" hay la` pho'ng le. > qua' ne^n "KHO^NG (tha^'y ca^y) ddao"? phi ddao = dao bay There is a rule: if "phi" in front of an adjective, it means "non-", such as phi tuye^'n ti'nh: the word "tin'h" is there to make it an adjective phi nha^n ti'nh: same as above But the word "ti'nh" can be dropped, so the more reliable criterion is to see if the word after "phi" is an abstract word or not. If the following word after "phi" is an abstract word, then more often than not it means "non-" Examples: phi nghi~a phi thu+o+`ng phi pha'p phi ly' phi chi'nh tri. phi nha^n ba?n phi chi'nh thu+'c phi nga~ phi nha^n if after phi is a concrete noun, most likely it's "fly" phi ddao phi kie^'m a^n cu+`u lu.c phi ha`nh gia phi co^ng phi thuye^`n These "phi"'s make compound words. But don't ask me about "Phi Lua^.t Ta^n" and "ha`nh phi" There are other words for "non-", such as "vo^", and "ba^'t", but I don't want to get into them for now. Regards, Pham Hai ******************